I think third way Christians contain multitudes as well, and the devil's in the details.
Some get locked in ivory steeples, some defend neutrality to be not willing to comment on anything deemed political... but I think it's possible to be loud against the dehumanizing MAGA crowd while having nuanced opinions on policies that don't fit neatly into modern ideological cliques.
I'm a little more weary of these ideological bubbles being outside of the US, seeing how other countries' politics don't fit neatly into the American dichotomy (but is slowly being slowly succumbing to it).
However, I think there's a difference between being third way on something like deficit spending verses whether Putin is acting morally. Some things require greater moral clarity as you rightly suggest.
Like always JC does a pretty good job of giving us great case studies in navigating two pilitical groups dehumanizing people in different ways. I feel he was good at not getting bogged down in some political or theological debates but getting people to see the value of love and care for other human beings... the way he technically agrees with the Pharisees on many things: adultry is bad, resurrection is literal, not exactly down with Roman best practices... but still he comes down blisteringly hard on those who "share" his views bc of that dehumanization and lack of love that has overtaken them.
In our own moment I feel Adam Kinzinger and Bono represent the kind of "third way" Christians I would hope to be. One identifies as right, one identifies as left but they both know how to stand up to the dehumanization of the moment. I especially am in awe of how Bono has been tactfully arguing using a Christian framework to try to lovingly convince those on the fence (like Joe Rogan) to realize the dehumanizing of MAGA polices.
Anyway this convo is more suited for a longer conversation in a duel cleaning podcast... but I would get absolutely no cleaning down because I suck at multitasking. ;P
Thanks for listening Sam! Duel cleaning podcasts sounds wild 😝
You make a lot of great points. I think you’re right that it’s less about identifying with a certain side, but in every issue, being as faithful a Christian you can.
I guess this was just my personal reckoning with the idea fact that I do identity with a part of the spectrum these days, even though that identity is lower than that of Christian.
You make a good point about those two gentlemen. It’s nice to remember there are Republicans who haven’t succumbed to MAGA cruelty and still let their faith guide their resistance to it.
I guess I was just expressing that a commitment to neutrality can cause us to miss facing the moment as we ought to. I view that as the primary mistake the Confessing Church made. Most of its pastors wanted to remain as neutral and non-political as possible. It’s why I’m resonating more with the New Evangelicals, who are consistently calling out Christian Nationalist hypocrisy, rather than the guys at Truth Over Tribe, who rarely say a word against MAGA, which begins to feel like a deafening silence and potentially self-preserving.
Yeah, and it's a great point you make too about the need not to be neutral on morally clear situations. I think that the common denominator between those I respect who are still somewhat conservative whether, David French, Ross Douthat, David Brooks, or the Holy Post podcast. I think the Holy Post crew more or less best reflects my theological and political views... but these days I strive to be as ecumenical I can without committing heresy ;)
So in your parts, what are they accusing you of heresy for? Is it coming from the more right-wing syncretist crowd?
I'm glad you enjoy the recs, I should also cavat all my conservative never-trump recs by saying I'm still not as conservative as them after living in Europe and enjoying the blend of light socialism mixed with capitalism, haha. Idk, in politics, if anything I want to be labbled as a naunce bro... let's take things issue by issue, think of the pros/cons, look for compromise, be aware of unintended consequences and our own falibility... all assuming elected officials even care for actual substantive policy debates anymore.
Well, thankfully no one is actually accusing me of heresy, I just said some probably would if I presented exactly the things I believe or am open to.
Primarily this is in reference to my ecumenical, interfaith, mystic bent (my recent poem, World Walker is a good example). I remain firmly Christian, but not only do I enjoy learning about other faiths, I’m also open to what is good and wise in them. That’s just a bit too far for many Christians. Most specifically, I believe I have a lot to learn from Buddhism, particularly in relation to mindfulness.
Also, in the past year I’ve become an affirming Christian. And as of very recently, in light of wrestling through questions in my confirmation class, I’m more or less a universalist. Obviously many Christians would ding me for one or both of those things too. I know this because me from five years ago would criticize the hell out of me now 🤷🏼♂️
I think third way Christians contain multitudes as well, and the devil's in the details.
Some get locked in ivory steeples, some defend neutrality to be not willing to comment on anything deemed political... but I think it's possible to be loud against the dehumanizing MAGA crowd while having nuanced opinions on policies that don't fit neatly into modern ideological cliques.
I'm a little more weary of these ideological bubbles being outside of the US, seeing how other countries' politics don't fit neatly into the American dichotomy (but is slowly being slowly succumbing to it).
However, I think there's a difference between being third way on something like deficit spending verses whether Putin is acting morally. Some things require greater moral clarity as you rightly suggest.
Like always JC does a pretty good job of giving us great case studies in navigating two pilitical groups dehumanizing people in different ways. I feel he was good at not getting bogged down in some political or theological debates but getting people to see the value of love and care for other human beings... the way he technically agrees with the Pharisees on many things: adultry is bad, resurrection is literal, not exactly down with Roman best practices... but still he comes down blisteringly hard on those who "share" his views bc of that dehumanization and lack of love that has overtaken them.
In our own moment I feel Adam Kinzinger and Bono represent the kind of "third way" Christians I would hope to be. One identifies as right, one identifies as left but they both know how to stand up to the dehumanization of the moment. I especially am in awe of how Bono has been tactfully arguing using a Christian framework to try to lovingly convince those on the fence (like Joe Rogan) to realize the dehumanizing of MAGA polices.
Anyway this convo is more suited for a longer conversation in a duel cleaning podcast... but I would get absolutely no cleaning down because I suck at multitasking. ;P
Thanks for listening Sam! Duel cleaning podcasts sounds wild 😝
You make a lot of great points. I think you’re right that it’s less about identifying with a certain side, but in every issue, being as faithful a Christian you can.
I guess this was just my personal reckoning with the idea fact that I do identity with a part of the spectrum these days, even though that identity is lower than that of Christian.
You make a good point about those two gentlemen. It’s nice to remember there are Republicans who haven’t succumbed to MAGA cruelty and still let their faith guide their resistance to it.
I guess I was just expressing that a commitment to neutrality can cause us to miss facing the moment as we ought to. I view that as the primary mistake the Confessing Church made. Most of its pastors wanted to remain as neutral and non-political as possible. It’s why I’m resonating more with the New Evangelicals, who are consistently calling out Christian Nationalist hypocrisy, rather than the guys at Truth Over Tribe, who rarely say a word against MAGA, which begins to feel like a deafening silence and potentially self-preserving.
Yeah, and it's a great point you make too about the need not to be neutral on morally clear situations. I think that the common denominator between those I respect who are still somewhat conservative whether, David French, Ross Douthat, David Brooks, or the Holy Post podcast. I think the Holy Post crew more or less best reflects my theological and political views... but these days I strive to be as ecumenical I can without committing heresy ;)
Haha same…though some would probably accuse me of already committing heresy 🤷🏼♂️
Yeah I’ve been occasionally listening to The Dispatch since you turned me onto it. Good rec! Thanks. I also appreciate Ross Douthat.
So in your parts, what are they accusing you of heresy for? Is it coming from the more right-wing syncretist crowd?
I'm glad you enjoy the recs, I should also cavat all my conservative never-trump recs by saying I'm still not as conservative as them after living in Europe and enjoying the blend of light socialism mixed with capitalism, haha. Idk, in politics, if anything I want to be labbled as a naunce bro... let's take things issue by issue, think of the pros/cons, look for compromise, be aware of unintended consequences and our own falibility... all assuming elected officials even care for actual substantive policy debates anymore.
Well, thankfully no one is actually accusing me of heresy, I just said some probably would if I presented exactly the things I believe or am open to.
Primarily this is in reference to my ecumenical, interfaith, mystic bent (my recent poem, World Walker is a good example). I remain firmly Christian, but not only do I enjoy learning about other faiths, I’m also open to what is good and wise in them. That’s just a bit too far for many Christians. Most specifically, I believe I have a lot to learn from Buddhism, particularly in relation to mindfulness.
Also, in the past year I’ve become an affirming Christian. And as of very recently, in light of wrestling through questions in my confirmation class, I’m more or less a universalist. Obviously many Christians would ding me for one or both of those things too. I know this because me from five years ago would criticize the hell out of me now 🤷🏼♂️
Yeah finding low blood pressure ways to talk about all of this is a must… even between our multiple selves ;)